Dan Wang's framework exposes how China's engineering state challenges Western beliefs that Hollywood, finance, and services can sustain global power over manufacturing prowess.
Why not? China is reality; Hollywood is fantasy! Unfortunately, many Westerners can't see the hatred that Hollywood has introduced against XYZ in order to support the illegal enrichment of certain Western elites.
Such a pity. Such a waste of incredible potential... oh Humanity! Such interesting civilisational States; the US vs China vs India vs Arabias, vs the Latinos vs & Africans... Our Sci-Fi Future AWAITS! But it is not a Star Trek Future, all bright & shiny. No, no, no! No, Humanity's Elites & their techno minions CHOOSE a Dystopian, grim nightmare instead. Shades of Skynet, of Matrix, of Bad Gods and worse Elite$. Fuck them ALL. I choose The Source & The Universes. Piss off, the lot of you. 🙏
Very interesting, mostly true, but there is a bit of silliness there.
The One Child policy was not stupid, it was essential to stabilise the population which has been achieved. Just look at the state of India and the Philippines where growth is out of control.
The idea that the Chinese are angry with their government is easily disproven by looking at Pew and others which find world topping satisfaction ratings of over 90%.
But as for the unsatisfied minority, they don't have to find "means of escape". All they need is an air ticket, nobody is stopping them.
Frankly, Wang doesn't appear to have a single original idea. Pointing out that China is led by engineers the US by lawyers, is old hat.
Wang's claim that during the "one child policy" millions were sterilised, etc., is pure American propaganda.
Further, there's nothing new about his claims re Covid. American propagandists have been rehearsing these claims for half a decade. However, I was living in Beijing when COVID hit and most people understood and accepted the necessity of the lockdowns. When a few years later a new outbreak hit Shanghai resulting in a prolonged lockdown, people protested, the government reviewed their policy and lifted most of the restrictions. The fact is, because of the lockdown, less than 6 thousand people died in China. That's proof enough of the correctness of the policy.
Wang claims he wants to go beyond 19th century labels. Yet, several times when referring to China, he uses the label Communist. Yet, when talking about America, I don't recall him once using the term Capitalist.
Fully agree. He writes for a western audience with a western propaganda mindset. He perhaps doesn't even is aware of its propagandistic views... Which is paradoxical since he himself forgot to check his ideas with reality...
Powerful and provocative thoughts. It's the totalitarian technocratic part that enslaves us all - that all nations seem to be embracing that's the most disturbing rub.
I bought the book. I wasn’t aware that China was led by engineers. Wang didn’t talk about designing cities where no one lives. Well designed but empty. The Chinese usually have a plan, so perhaps they will populate the empty cities with farmers as robotics work the farms. Or was it just an over-build.
There is new information for me regarding the sterilization programs. Tears on the doorstep. Who is allowed to have families and who is not.
I am sure that the regional countries would prefer not to be dominated by China as Wang suggests. That is a Western attitude. Maybe China isn’t interested in collaboration with its neighbors. The US isn’t currently either.
Just because a society is run by engineers doesn’t make it ideal. Engineers love to exclude externalities such as pollution or public health. The ‘process’ isn’t efficient if you have to add air scrubbers and water reclamation facilities. The plastics come from oil, and silicon and lithium are open pit mining ventures. Are these areas reclaimed after use? China can be an inexpensive producer if they bypass reclamation costs, especially for air and water.
However, the United States is less of a beacon of capability for manufacturing jobs lately as well since they arrested all the South Korean employees at the battery plant. It is the difference between setting up a plant with knowledeable South Korean workers and training American workers for steady state operations. Without the plant setup, American workers can’t work. No company can invest in American manufacturing in a capricious environment.
As a finance professional, I agree completely that finance is a secondary process. It is additive in the resource arena to provide construction funding, but it is invisible to what is being produced, meaning financing doesn’t distinguish between widgets or electric cars, and doesn’t consider externalities unless it is a dedicated focus of the financing. If the financial returns are there, usually the financing is there.
I enjoyed the article and look forward to the book. Xie Xie
Wang’s framing of China as an “engineering state” resonates with earlier moments in history. Britain’s global dominance in the 19th century rested on coal, steel, and shipbuilding - material capacity that later eroded as London shifted toward finance. The Soviet Union too revealed the paradox of industrial might without innovation, mastering heavy industry but stalling in microelectronics.
Kautilya’s Arthashastra made the same point millennia ago: power flows from production and logistics, not abstraction. Civilizations that master the physical foundations of strength endure while those that rely on services or narratives eventually decline. The US risks repeating Britain’s trajectory unless it reclaims its industrial base.
The Western Europeans are the best current example of what happens when abstractions (in this case their “values”) alone dictate actions. Their “values” based approach to Russia has devastated their previously quite strong production and logistical abilities.
Their current “values” based model (which ironically is totally at variance with the traditional values, which drove their ascent) has also destroyed their cultural and social cohesion, rooted as it is in values completely contrary to their traditional ones.
With the destruction of both economic capability and social cohesion, both of which are rooted in shared values , they will undoubtedly collapse. A sharp lurch to the right may delay this, but avoidance of their fate seems unlikely.
Why not? China is reality; Hollywood is fantasy! Unfortunately, many Westerners can't see the hatred that Hollywood has introduced against XYZ in order to support the illegal enrichment of certain Western elites.
Such a pity. Such a waste of incredible potential... oh Humanity! Such interesting civilisational States; the US vs China vs India vs Arabias, vs the Latinos vs & Africans... Our Sci-Fi Future AWAITS! But it is not a Star Trek Future, all bright & shiny. No, no, no! No, Humanity's Elites & their techno minions CHOOSE a Dystopian, grim nightmare instead. Shades of Skynet, of Matrix, of Bad Gods and worse Elite$. Fuck them ALL. I choose The Source & The Universes. Piss off, the lot of you. 🙏
"..China as an “engineering state” versus the United States as a “lawyerly society...”
In other words, China determines what needs to be done and does it, whilst USA uses lawfare to ensure that it will not be done.
Very interesting, mostly true, but there is a bit of silliness there.
The One Child policy was not stupid, it was essential to stabilise the population which has been achieved. Just look at the state of India and the Philippines where growth is out of control.
The idea that the Chinese are angry with their government is easily disproven by looking at Pew and others which find world topping satisfaction ratings of over 90%.
But as for the unsatisfied minority, they don't have to find "means of escape". All they need is an air ticket, nobody is stopping them.
Dear Walt,
Calling someone silly when they have written an article based on their perspective is, and always will be,
poor form!
Frankly, Wang doesn't appear to have a single original idea. Pointing out that China is led by engineers the US by lawyers, is old hat.
Wang's claim that during the "one child policy" millions were sterilised, etc., is pure American propaganda.
Further, there's nothing new about his claims re Covid. American propagandists have been rehearsing these claims for half a decade. However, I was living in Beijing when COVID hit and most people understood and accepted the necessity of the lockdowns. When a few years later a new outbreak hit Shanghai resulting in a prolonged lockdown, people protested, the government reviewed their policy and lifted most of the restrictions. The fact is, because of the lockdown, less than 6 thousand people died in China. That's proof enough of the correctness of the policy.
Wang claims he wants to go beyond 19th century labels. Yet, several times when referring to China, he uses the label Communist. Yet, when talking about America, I don't recall him once using the term Capitalist.
Could say more, but you get the idea.
Fully agree. He writes for a western audience with a western propaganda mindset. He perhaps doesn't even is aware of its propagandistic views... Which is paradoxical since he himself forgot to check his ideas with reality...
Powerful and provocative thoughts. It's the totalitarian technocratic part that enslaves us all - that all nations seem to be embracing that's the most disturbing rub.
I bought the book. I wasn’t aware that China was led by engineers. Wang didn’t talk about designing cities where no one lives. Well designed but empty. The Chinese usually have a plan, so perhaps they will populate the empty cities with farmers as robotics work the farms. Or was it just an over-build.
There is new information for me regarding the sterilization programs. Tears on the doorstep. Who is allowed to have families and who is not.
I am sure that the regional countries would prefer not to be dominated by China as Wang suggests. That is a Western attitude. Maybe China isn’t interested in collaboration with its neighbors. The US isn’t currently either.
Just because a society is run by engineers doesn’t make it ideal. Engineers love to exclude externalities such as pollution or public health. The ‘process’ isn’t efficient if you have to add air scrubbers and water reclamation facilities. The plastics come from oil, and silicon and lithium are open pit mining ventures. Are these areas reclaimed after use? China can be an inexpensive producer if they bypass reclamation costs, especially for air and water.
However, the United States is less of a beacon of capability for manufacturing jobs lately as well since they arrested all the South Korean employees at the battery plant. It is the difference between setting up a plant with knowledeable South Korean workers and training American workers for steady state operations. Without the plant setup, American workers can’t work. No company can invest in American manufacturing in a capricious environment.
As a finance professional, I agree completely that finance is a secondary process. It is additive in the resource arena to provide construction funding, but it is invisible to what is being produced, meaning financing doesn’t distinguish between widgets or electric cars, and doesn’t consider externalities unless it is a dedicated focus of the financing. If the financial returns are there, usually the financing is there.
I enjoyed the article and look forward to the book. Xie Xie
good points, very well elaborated. thanks for sharing your POV.
Thank you very much!
Wang’s framing of China as an “engineering state” resonates with earlier moments in history. Britain’s global dominance in the 19th century rested on coal, steel, and shipbuilding - material capacity that later eroded as London shifted toward finance. The Soviet Union too revealed the paradox of industrial might without innovation, mastering heavy industry but stalling in microelectronics.
Kautilya’s Arthashastra made the same point millennia ago: power flows from production and logistics, not abstraction. Civilizations that master the physical foundations of strength endure while those that rely on services or narratives eventually decline. The US risks repeating Britain’s trajectory unless it reclaims its industrial base.
The Western Europeans are the best current example of what happens when abstractions (in this case their “values”) alone dictate actions. Their “values” based approach to Russia has devastated their previously quite strong production and logistical abilities.
Their current “values” based model (which ironically is totally at variance with the traditional values, which drove their ascent) has also destroyed their cultural and social cohesion, rooted as it is in values completely contrary to their traditional ones.
With the destruction of both economic capability and social cohesion, both of which are rooted in shared values , they will undoubtedly collapse. A sharp lurch to the right may delay this, but avoidance of their fate seems unlikely.